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channel 4 programe

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JohnC
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« Reply #15 on: December 17, 2008, 11:24:20 pm »

  Is it being  a pessimistic to think that one day there will be a destructive impact  or is it  recognising reality ?  As already mentioned most of the planet is taken up with the oceans and vast areas of land that  is uninhabited or has a  small scattered population BUT (now to my pessimism)  I believe that ' what can happen,will happen'  and we won't keep getting away with it, if I can use  a rather basic term. As these Sudan-type incidents occur several times a year ( I was unaware of that until now ) then that only reinforces my pessimistic  or realistic view that each one is a step nearer to one impacting on an area  with a large population.  That's quite a disturbing stat. a Sudan-type  event - I say 'event' as it wasn't , just as Tunguska wasn't, an impact,  occurring several times a year. There's the risk too, that if one impacted in an ocean or a sea  in  coastal  area then  wouldn't we have a tsunami event ?.... and it could be a populated coastal area.

How many  impacts are there per year ? Maybe some  occur in such remote areas they go unnoticed - like tornadoes in the vastness  of the Plains.
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jjb
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« Reply #16 on: December 17, 2008, 11:36:04 pm »

Brian knowing my luck by the time i get to the book shop to find a statistics book an asteroid will have wiped it out. Wink
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martinastro
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« Reply #17 on: December 17, 2008, 11:59:20 pm »

Yip, I can't have statistics at all.  Smiley

Satellites which scan the Earth for nuclear explosions detect many big fireball detonations high in the atmosphere every year.

I don't think it's at all pessimistic, it's just a fact. It's not a case of if, but when. That's what the top scientists have been saying for years anyway. The subject used to be laughed at but when SL-9 hit Jupiter that changed everything. Congress even got together to discuss the threat and that's when they began the automated survey programmes like LINEAR and NEAT to hunt for these objects. At a glance the impact threat may seem like a lot of fuss over nothing, even nothing to loose any sleep over, but the problem is that it's a low probability-high consequence situation. The chances of getting hit by a comet are extremely low but if it did, it would change everything so it does need looking at. If not for our own generation, then certainly the next. It's something mankind is going to have to face at some stage. Hopefullly any suspect will be caught well in advance then 'encouraged' to miss Earth by a safe distance using the tech which they are now designing for this sort of thing.  

But finding these objects well in advance is the problem. Recall comet IRAS-Aracki-Alcock co discovered by George Alcock with binoculars. Within a week or so of discovery it made a close approach past Earth, the 2nd closest comet approach on record. If it had been Earth bound it would have been too late to do anything about it. So, the surveys are doing a pretty good job, at least with the 1st half of the problem. - finding them.

Just a note about meteorites and animals. There are records going back for 100s of years about complete herds of cattle getting killed by meteorite falls. That also includes rooftops catching fire etc.

There was one amusing case of a king killed by a comet. His astrologer's told him that his death would be announced by a comet of extrodinary magnitude. Soon after this a great comet appeared in the sky visible in daylight, the king looked at it, and died from fright. I could look this story up and give more details if anyone is interested  Grin..it is a true story.
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JohnC
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« Reply #18 on: December 18, 2008, 02:50:07 pm »

You could post the link to that story, Martin.

I've just seen the 'modify' box. Ugh. I changed my first sentence , posted  it and realised  I hadn't changed pessimistic to  'pessimist'.   I was looking for 'edit'.  I like to think my english is up to scratch .  Lol.
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martinastro
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« Reply #19 on: December 18, 2008, 02:58:28 pm »

No problem John, I actually have it in a book so I will need to hunt it down and write out the entire piece. which is not very long anyway.  Smiley
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martinastro
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« Reply #20 on: December 18, 2008, 04:12:44 pm »

Here it is...

''A story from the Illustrated London News tells the story of a comet whose untimely visit caused the death of a Prince. The guilty comet appeared in 1402 and was visible in broad daylight for a week:

There is no doubt, however, that comets sometimes really did produce fatal effects. In June, 1402, one appeared in Italy which literally killed the famous John Galeas Visconti. The astrologers of the Prince had predicted that his death would be announced by a comet of extraordinary magnitude, and the celestial phenomena had no sooner become visible than his highness, speechless from fright, sank to the ground and died''.
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martinastro
Martin Mc Kenna
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« Reply #21 on: December 18, 2008, 04:32:02 pm »

Here are some documented reports of animals, property and humans injured or killed by meteorites for anyone interested. This is just a small selection from a larger list.

1420 BC Israel = lethal meteorite fall.

476 China = thundering chariots like granite fell to ground, vegetation was scorched

580 France = great fireball and blast, Orleans and nearby towns burned

588 China = red coloured object fell with noise like thunder into furnace, exploded, burned several houses.

616 China = ten deaths reported in China from meteorite shower, seige towers destroyed.

679 England = Monastery destroyed by fire from heaven

1064 China = daytime fireball, meteorite fall, fences burned

1321 China = Iron rain kills people, animals, and damages houses

1369 China = large star fell, starts fire, soliders injured

1490 China = stones fell like rain, 10,000 killed

1511 Italy = monk killed with several birds and sheep.

1639 China = large stone fell in market, tens killed, tens of houses destroyed

1648 Malacca = two sailors killed on board ship

1654 Italy = Monk killed by meteorite

1790 France = meteorite crushes cottage, kills farmer and some cattle

These reports continue for 9 more pages in the book!
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jjb
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« Reply #22 on: December 18, 2008, 10:08:44 pm »

Interesting list there Martin and to think it goes on for 9 more pages! i would love to see another bovedy streak across the night sky it would make a great image.

jonathan
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brianb
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« Reply #23 on: December 18, 2008, 10:40:15 pm »

Quote
Interesting list there Martin and to think it goes on for 9 more pages!
Yes but I do quetion the reliability of the identification of some of these incidents as meteorite falls / NEO impact events. "Stones falling from the sky" could refer to debris associated with a tornado; "fireballs" might be "Chinese whispers" of lightning strikes; "fire from heaven" very probably is lightning. There are for example reports of people in Southern England, several miles inland, being injured by fish falling from the sky; though this event occurred in medieval times, it's very hard to interpret this as an extraterrestrial impact, and in any case the mystery is solved by contemporary records referring to a "roaring serpent rearing from the sea"; no doubt a waterspout which sucked the fish high into the air before depositing them when the uplift failed.

I don't have a lot of faith in the literal truth of the Bible but the references to "a pillar of fire" are striking, this could refer to the visible results of a medium sized impact with an energy in the megaton range; the ancient Israelites and their many enemies are not known to have had nuclear weapons, or even conventional explosive technologies, and it's hard to think of natural explanations other than volcanic eruptions which are unknown in the area.
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JohnC
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« Reply #24 on: December 18, 2008, 11:30:48 pm »

I absolutely agree with Brian. Undoubtedly, some of the events that are to be found in the Bible did occur and I knew they had to be  a natural event. A few years ago I watched a fascinating programme about just this very thing. It went through the 'events' one by one. The parting of the Red sea which allowed the Israelites, led by Moses, to escape the pursuing Egyptians (hope I got that right Lol) was the result of a tsunami which on a much smaller scale happens today in that region, I think they said  when ,if there has been a disturbance under the sea in the region.  An ancient volcano accounted for another event.  The plagues were accounted for as a result of a sequence of interlinked events related to an extreme weather event.  A plague of Frogs rained down--that's happened in modern times with fish and the like  and as Brian  has pointed out, they get sucked up by water spouts or as I like to call them and this is my own term,I know there is debate about it - maritime tornadoes and other creatures as a result of land  tornadoes. I believe that 99.9% of events can be explained in scientific terms and those that can't ,will be ,  as science progresses and gives us answers. I expect that when we get a better understanding of subjects like the ones discussed in that programme about 'time' which was on tv last week, then we'll get a few more answers to what, at present, we don't have an explanation for.
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martinastro
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« Reply #25 on: December 19, 2008, 12:42:42 pm »

Very interesting points there Brian and John. I agree that some of those accounts could very well be other phenomena. Of interest are the accounts were the word meteorite is used. I must go through the other pages and look for more recent reports. Jonathan made a good point about the Bovedy which is a very recent fall in N. Ireland. I would love to have seen that too, however someone on here did see that one come down..John McConnell himself. There's an interesting audio clip taken of birds at the time and the sonice booms of the fireball can be heard.

I seen that documentary too John about the Red Sea. It was very interesting.  Smiley
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